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Forum:Using Real Names Instead of Codenames
I think we should be using real names for the page name for all the characters instead of using their more-known code names. I am talking about: * Kuzan instead of Aokiji * Borsalino instead of Kizaru * Sakazuki instead of Akainu * Paula instead of Miss Doublefinger * Bentham instead of Mr. 2 Bon Kurei * Galdino instead of Mr. 3 * Attach instead of Attachan * Adelle Bascùd instead of Anaguma I have reasons to suggest so: * Even though it's less confusing to use their "more well known" pseudonyms, it is more consistence to go with the real names. I mean, some characters are more well-known by their nicknames, but use their real names for their page names. ** Edward Newgate instead of Whitebeard ** Marshall D. Teach instead of Blackbeard ** Charlotte Linlin instead of Big Mam ** Daz Bones instead of Mr. 1 ** Monkey D. Luffy instead of Straw Hat * Before you go into how discrepancies this might create for some characters, let me clarify: ** Portgas D. Ace officially (and "legally?") changed his surname from Gol to Portgas out of respect ** Franky officially (and "legally?") changed his name from Cutty Flam to hide his origins ** Nyon discarded her old name Glorosia * For some characters, they are still called by their original names: ** Admirals (i.e. they address them as "Admirals Sakazuki, Kuzan, and Borsalino" most of the times, not "Admirals Akainu, Aokiji, and Kizaru") *** As a side note, if Aokiji is promoted to Fleet Admiral, then he would most likely throw away "Admiral Aokiji" and become "Fleet Admiral Kuzan" ** Miss Doublefinger gave up her old life as a Baroque Works, in order to fulfill her dream of becoming Paula I think it's fair and consistence to change all these pages to real names instead of using their aliases anymore. Also, please note if I missed any. Yatanogarasu 18:42, April 10, 2011 (UTC) Discussions Start Here I'm against this. It feels awkward to use names that are never used. While Akainu is a somewhat special case, it is still how he is referred to the most, maybe 50:50). Also, consistency is not a real argument, we can be consistent by going with the most used/associated name. It just doesn't feel right, Mr. 3 is Mr. 3, not Galdino. If at all, I would rename Marshall D. Teach to Blackbeard, same case with Edward Newgate. 18:50, April 10, 2011 (UTC) I think they should be changed. Baroque Works is no more, Anaguma was revealed outright to be Adelle Bascud, and the admirals have their own names, and we don't call Sengoku Fleet Admiral Buddha, or Garp Vice Admiral Fist. The only one I'm not sure about is Attachan. I think that's his real name, like how Hachi's real name is Hatchan. Aside from Attachan, I think they should all be changed. 18:55, April 10, 2011 (UTC) Yes, and we still have redirects, so people who aren't familiar with the real names can simply type in the alias, and they get redirected into the page. Overtime, people will get more familiar with the real names with this method. Yatanogarasu 19:01, April 10, 2011 (UTC) I think it's ok, anyway the "nickname" pages will become redirects so there will be no problems, but I don't think it will be necessary to change the nicknames links as well (like in the templates), at least not everywhere. I also agree with you about Ace/Franky cases, but I have still some doubts about elder Nyon, because in her case I think her name simply became unused, she didn't reject it like Franky (or am I mistaking?). [[User:Leviathan_89|''leviathan_89]] 19:04, April 10, 2011 (UTC) I do agree with this. In my opinion, characters should be called by their given names, with their possible nicknames or epithets written in the page. However, these very same nicknames ought to be alright when searching for the corresponding character's page, otherwise less experienced ones might find themselves confused. Aldarinor 19:08, April 10, 2011 (UTC) Totally agree on using real names. It's neater. That's for these cases that redirects exist. sff9 (talk) 20:19, April 10, 2011 (UTC) I don't agree. Whitebeard and admirals' names are not same thing. WB is "Edward Newgate, aka Whitebeard " but admiral is "Akainu, real name is Sakzuki" --Klobis 01:49, April 11, 2011 (UTC) :It may be a different thing, but still, if we used Akainu for Sakazuki, that would mean we grant more importance to his job/rank than to his person. I find more logical to see things this way: Sakazuki is (1) Sakazuki, and (2) an admiral. sff9 (talk) 16:37, April 11, 2011 (UTC) Admirals' ephitets are not the same as the others, they are introduced that way and it would be easier to find them as some fans are not avare of their real names this is same with Baraque Works agents. Maybe we can change the names but the page should open when we type their epithets as well. Also Introducing section should write something like this "Sakazuki aka. Akainu" that way will be much introducing. 16:02, April 11, 2011 (UTC) :Don't worry about this, it'd be the same as for the other aliases. Just type Whitebeard and see. sff9 (talk) 16:37, April 11, 2011 (UTC) : :Interesting to note in this case, is the fact that the Marvel and DC wikias both have the Codename as pagename and not the real name, so Frank Castle redirects to The Punisher, not the other way around. Panda 17:53, April 11, 2011 (UTC) : Why don't we use a combination of both? Something like '''Kuzan (aka Aokiji)?' I find it extremely irritating to search for Mr. 3 only to end up on Galdino. This one is really the absolute worst example, virtually no one calls him by his real name. I know it can be redirected, but it is still irritating. 17:56, April 11, 2011 (UTC) How about this : Use the most commonly used name . Not enough time had passed for people to call Mr. 3 by his real name when we last saw him. He was hardly ever addressed personally from when he reappeared in Impel Down to the end of the war. If you want to go by most common name then you might as well redirect Mr. 2 to Bon-chan. We changed Big Mam to Charlotte Linlin even though she had been known as Big Mam up until her name was given, why should this be any different. There's no need to use the aka, the redirect will take care of that. 19:11, April 11, 2011 (UTC) Well, no problem to change Charlotte Linlin back to Big Mam, or Edward Newgate/Teach to White/Blackbeard. Why should they be any different than Aokiji and Kizaru? See, the so called consistency can go both ways. And yes, the redirect takes care of something: it looks like an error message. 19:32, April 11, 2011 (UTC) Oh, and Mr. 3 was addressed directly since his name was revealed in Impeldown, by Mr. 3. It is just strange, even his hairstyle is a constant reminder. 19:34, April 11, 2011 (UTC) When you said Mr. 3 the second time, I'm assuming you meant either Bones or Bentham, neither of whom knew his real name, so that can't really count. As for his hair style. Mr. 4 and Mr. 5 kep their appearances after Baroque Works was disbandeded, so I'm not surprised Galdino did too. How does a redirect look like an error message? 19:45, April 11, 2011 (UTC) Too bad that I can not provide you with an episode, but I could swear that Mr 3 is still addressed as Mr 3, by Buggy and the Baroque works agents/Crocodile. I'm also quite sure that Crocodile knows the real names of his former subordinates, like Bones - but he still calls Galdino Mr. 3. And while you are right that Mr. 4/5 kept their appearance, you can not compare more or less neutral clothing with a big fat, (sometimes even burning) 3 on your head...^^ As for redirects looking like an error, that is just an impression. It tells me that I did something wrong, I needed a redirection. It is not something major, but a somewhat negative impression. 19:58, April 11, 2011 (UTC) The real deal here is that since Galdino is his birth name, we should use that instead of some nickname given to him by Crocodile during his career. A birth name is for ever (unless you change it legally), while code-names only last until you finish with the organization and career. Baroque is over now. Yatanogarasu 20:08, April 11, 2011 (UTC) Well, keeping his hair in the shape of a 3 goes with his birthday cake motif, so it's probably going to stay since it also shows emotion like going to an exclamation point when he is shocked. Crocodile seemed closer to Bones than any other agents to begin with. As for the redirect, I don't know how to convince you otherwise, it is simply a way of correcting and explaining why that page showed up. They're even helpful shortcuts. I always go through the Luffy, Zoro, and Robin redirects to get to their pages, saves time. I don't see the problem with redirects. 20:13, April 11, 2011 (UTC) Traditionally it was always the name most reconnigsed. At wikipedia it was found via google search (One Piece + name) but that was unreliable. Theres a spoiler warning on the front page, but spoilers overall are the biggest issue here for newbs. I'm not bothered myself so long as the character comes up that I'm looking for. One-Winged Hawk 20:18, April 11, 2011 (UTC) I am all for birth names. I mean, okay for instance "Mr. 3" is the name that Galdino is most well known by, but I feel that it is important to directly tell readers that "this is his/her real name". I mean, we here are more well-known by our usernames, but I wouldn't really enjoy it if my real name were forgotten by everyone around me. As long as there is a redirect, the page will even come up in google search. (try whitebeard) We also have infobox pictures to prove the wikia did not just redirect to some crazy page, and if that is not enough, we can always have the italics on the top saying "this character is more commonly known as so and so". I just feel that more people should be aware of real names (sometimes they miss the real names in the storyline or the wiki page) since Oda went through the trouble of creating them. 21:01, April 11, 2011 (UTC) Hm. I love your solution with the changed italics...is this possible Dancepowderer/Yata? 21:05, April 11, 2011 (UTC) :I agree most of this simply because I'm too tired right now to disagree (lol). I WILL note theres no record of when a character was first named on most pages, so expanding the infobox this way could help. Howeverwe already have epiphets and a infobox is just a quick reference, a speedy look up. It had information to be diegested and eaten easily without being complex. So too much information is bad for the infobox and we already have a lot there... One-Winged Hawk 23:15, April 11, 2011 (UTC) That's kind of unnecessary. People will see the epithet Mr. 3 in the info box. Also, like we did with Daz Bones, his codename will be mentioned in the opening paragraph. 21:31, April 11, 2011 (UTC) Well yes, but people MIGHT skip over the 1st paragraph or not look at the infobox- italics is just a way to draw attention. 21:38, April 11, 2011 (UTC) :Well, that's their problem. They're the ones who skip the paragraph. Anyone can skip a whole section just to look at something else. Yatanogarasu 22:17, April 11, 2011 (UTC) ::ITs not our job to make a person read the information, its our job to put it there for them to read. One-Winged Hawk 23:15, April 11, 2011 (UTC) ::Well, it kinda is our "problem". While we can not force people to read certain paragraphs, we can at least try our best to place important information (and the characters name/alias is important) properly. Even if it isn't necessary for some, it would definitely won't hurt as well. JapaneseOpfan makes really good points, I'm all for this if we could execute it that way (changing the italics) 00:46, April 12, 2011 (UTC) :::Okay, imagine this scnario okay? Theres a jar on it with a big skull and crossbones on it, we should all know this is a dangerous material and should not be drunk. Now if someone who knows what this sign means (can read) chooses not to check the jar before consuming it, then if they die its their own fault for not reading. Its the same scenario here except in a different context. We can change it to make it clearer, yes, but we STILL can't force anyone to pay attention. One-Winged Hawk 08:03, April 12, 2011 (UTC) :::Infobox and the introductory paragraphs are the most important parts there is. If people choose not to read it, then it's their own choice. We place emphasis on the nicknames like this: Daz Bones, also known as Mr. 1 (Mr. 1 or Mr. 1). See, you bold and/or italicize all then nicknames like the real name, is that good enough? Yatanogarasu 01:01, April 12, 2011 (UTC) ::Jinbe, you're being too sympathetic toward the reader. It's their own fault for not reading things carefully. If someone wonders why the article is titled Bentham and not Mr. 2 Bon Kurei, why wouldn't they read it to find out? That includes the infobox. What we did with Daz Bones is fine, and should be the example to follow for the rest of these pages. 01:17, April 12, 2011 (UTC) I dont think Edward "Whitebeard" Newgate , and "Mr.1" Daz Bones or may be "Akainu" Sakazuki are all the same : *Whitebeard is an epithet ( and hence cant be used as the page title : We cant refer to someone with just their epithet ( :- ) *Akainu and Mr.1 are the other names of Sakazuki and Daz Bones ( also the most commonly used versions ,which implies that They can be used as the page titles ) .-- It doesn't matter if it's an epithet or alias. Their real names are known, and should be changed as such. The reader can figure out their codenames by reading the article. Akainu will become Sakazuki, and his codename will be listed in the opening paragraph and in the infobox. I really don't see why this is such a problem. We changed Daz Bones, why not follow suit with the others? 16:51, April 12, 2011 (UTC) DancePowderer, then why we have used Franky instead of Cutty Flam? There is no reason to change it, right? --Klobis 11:15, April 13, 2011 (UTC) Yatano explained that up at the top. He officially declared his name to be Franky. He officially changed it by doing that. 19:08, April 13, 2011 (UTC) : We are not able to explain why , but using Akainu instead of Sakazuki is also right ( just an example ).... but I think a quick poll at this point of time would be good : So when shall we conduct the polls ? ::I say polls should start on the 17th, because this forum started on the 10th. We should have one week discussion before voting start. Yatanogarasu 05:14, April 14, 2011 (UTC) :::Alright ! I like to use some examples to state my point: * Suppose you are more well known by a nickname, but you need to apply for citizenship in some other country. Would you use your nickname or birth name? * Your birth name is (something something), but people call you "the monkey" all the time because you are as acrobatic as a monkey in gym. Because of this, you are known as "the monkey". Would you like that, having people call you monkey all the time? Do these questions prove why real names have prevalence over nicknames? Yatanogarasu 03:35, April 15, 2011 (UTC) Those are good examples. I think a good rule of thumb for names vs. nicknames/epithets would be to use whatever name would appear on a legal document or driver's license. 03:42, April 15, 2011 (UTC) Just saying to those who disagree, just saying, in Harry Potter Wikia, they use "Tom Riddle" instead of "Lord Voldemort". Not comparing or using it as an argument, just giving another prime example. Yatanogarasu 05:42, April 20, 2011 (UTC) And in the Marvel/DC wikis they use Codenames instead of real names (Punisher instead of Frank Castle/ Batman instead of Bruce Wayne etc) Panda 17:31, April 28, 2011 (UTC) (Note: This only gets my vote if Edward Newgate goes to Whitebeard. Most common names should be used over the real name.) SeaTerror :In that case, you want option 1. Yatanogarasu 06:15, April 29, 2011 (UTC) Maaaaaaaaaaan ! I was alone for 3 whole days and then Klobis joined me ,.. now what ? yohoho ! : @Seaterror : I think you can create another voting option with the permission of an admin (atleast I think :) ); ::No he cannot. Yatanogarasu 06:24, April 29, 2011 (UTC) Yeah I can. Admins are not supposed to be totalitarians and consider only the stuff they create to be the only thing allowed. SeaTerror 06:37, April 29, 2011 (UTC) Votes Start Okay, it's been a week. I see plenty of talks, and they go both ways, so let's vote for it. Please sign underneath one of the three options. The votes close on April 24, 2011, one week from today. Yatanogarasu 22:04, April 17, 2011 (UTC) Okay, due to the votes rack up to be equal, I see fit to extend the voting process by another week. Vote will end at May 1, 2011. Yatanogarasu 07:03, April 24, 2011 (UTC) :As a side-note, you are all free to change your votes for any reason. Yatanogarasu 06:13, April 28, 2011 (UTC) 1. Use code names for page names (i.e. Mr. 3, Whitebeard, etc.). 2. Use real names for page names (i.e. Galdino, Edward Newgate, etc). * Yatanogarasu 22:07, April 17, 2011 (UTC) * 22:10, April 17, 2011 (UTC) * 海賊姫 23:23, April 17, 2011 (UTC) * sff9 (talk) 08:56, April 18, 2011 (UTC) * [[User:Leviathan_89|''leviathan_89'']] 12:45, April 18, 2011 (UTC) * 14:55, April 26, 2011 (UTC) * Galcion 20:57, April 26, 2011 (UTC) * Tuckyd 23:30, April 27, 2011 (UTC) 3. Depends on the situation (i.e. Mr. 3 is more common, but Edward Newgate instead of Whitebeard, etc.) * * Klobis 11:36, April 18, 2011 (UTC) * MJDS 11:56, April 23, 2011 (UTC) * Uknownada 23:17, April 23, 2011 (UTC) * FoolishMortalFOOL 05:31, April 24, 2011 (UTC) * 18:23, April 25, 2011 (UTC) * Panda 09:53, April 26, 2011 (UTC) * 15:02, April 26, 2011 (UTC) * Imhungry4444 06:10, April 28, 2011 (UTC) * SeaTerror 16:59, April 28, 2011 (UTC) (Note: See note above) * Ryuzakiforever 21:53, April 28, 2011 (UTC)